2011-11-20 Core Meeting

[21:00:09] <coruja> ok, silence please 
[21:00:27] <coruja> welcome to tonight's core team meeting
[21:00:46] <coruja> rather a lot to talk about, so let's go
[21:00:53] <devil> do wee need EN?
[21:01:09] <coruja> for others to follow, would be nice
[21:01:22] <devil> edhunter, GoinEasy9 ?
[21:01:35] <coruja> and we agreed to to so, also for the logs
[21:01:49] <devil> well, i dont mind
[21:02:19] <coruja> if someone isn't capable, we don't mind some words in german, of course
[21:02:58] <coruja> first, three little topics before the main one for tonight
[21:03:08] <coruja> TOPIC decide on the fonts to be used for siduction
[21:03:37] <coruja> we can state that we will use the droid font for everything written
[21:03:58] <agaida> fugly, aber was solls
[21:04:03] <coruja> as xwebers font has some license issues that prevents us from using it
[21:04:29] <coruja> agaida, we decided so on last sunday's meeting
[21:04:52] <coruja> pity that i was the only one rather prepared, btw
[21:05:39] <devil> fontsd dont seem to be of great interest
[21:05:44] <coruja> ok, no comments on that, so next
[21:05:57] <coruja> TOPIC start creating artwork needed for and reflecting our first release and its name
[21:06:19] <devil> coruja: did the talks this morning point to a second font for header/titles?
[21:06:35] <coruja> devil, no
[21:06:50] <devil> coruja: i thought hendrikL hab some alternatives?
[21:06:54] <coruja> as i said, droid for everything
[21:07:26] <devil> ah, i missed that
[21:07:49] <hendrikL> we also have dejavu in the background
[21:07:52] <devil> so, if someone comes up with a usable font for titles, we can change
[21:07:57] <coruja> we could use other fonts for eye candy reasons, of course
[21:08:26] <coruja> but droid will be the main font, at least we decided so last week
[21:09:01] <coruja> so, next?
[21:09:13] <devil> no objection
[21:09:17] <coruja> TOPIC start creating artwork needed for and reflecting our first release and its name
[21:09:44] <devil> there is some wallpaper(s)  already
[21:09:52] <coruja> i've seen much activity there, we should reactivate the gallery for viewing results
[21:10:00] <devil> and se7en1 is ready for more
[21:10:12] <coruja> good news then
[21:10:26] <devil> grub and kdm splash seem to be done
[21:10:46] <hendrikL> the kdm-dummy is ready for the release
[21:11:14] <vibora> pong
[21:11:20] <devil> hi vibora 
[21:11:22] <hendrikL> splash seems to be to
[21:11:23] <coruja> agaida, the gallery works by use of symlinks in the art git repo, right?
[21:11:35] <agaida> yes
[21:12:15] <coruja> hendrikL, can you symlink the needed directories to be shown on gallery.siduction.org?
[21:12:37] <hendrikL> öh wich one?
[21:12:53] <coruja> the art-team should decide
[21:13:06] <coruja> whatever others and we might want to see
[21:13:20] <hendrikL> wallpapers u mean, right?
[21:13:34] <coruja> everything [21:13:47] <hendrikL> most a allready in the gallery
[21:13:51] <coruja> or rather, anything, not everythings necessarily
[21:13:53] <hendrikL> are*
[21:14:20] <hendrikL> i will talk to se7en1 in the morning
[21:14:44] <coruja> ok, fine
[21:15:09] <coruja> ok, next then
[21:15:19] <coruja> TOPIC write down shortly our domain maintenance guideline
[21:15:26] <coruja> cryptosteve? 
[21:15:50] <cryptosteve> not enough free time at the moment 
[21:15:59] <coruja> but soon please
[21:16:10] <cryptosteve> no need to hurry
[21:16:22] <coruja> needn't be long, just some sentences
[21:16:40] <cryptosteve> it's more a problem to integrate that into chili 
[21:16:57] <coruja> just a wiki page will do
[21:17:15] <cryptosteve> do I look like a wiki master? 
[21:17:23] <coruja> or you could add it to the map of siduction
[21:17:23] <devil> yes
[21:17:42] <cryptosteve> we'll see ..
[21:17:47] <hendrikL> cryptosteve: there are good help pages 
[21:17:48] <coruja> below the subdomains' table
[21:18:54] <coruja> cryptosteve, would be fine if it'll be done soon, and if you don't know exactly how, ask others for help
[21:19:17] <coruja> cryptosteve, or send me the text and i'll do for you
[21:19:50] <coruja> ok, next?
[21:19:53] <GoinEasy9> Hi all, sorry just got home from work
[21:19:55] <devil> yup
[21:19:58] <coruja> hi GoinEasy9 
[21:19:58] <devil> hi GoinEasy9 
[21:20:02] <hendrikL> hi GoinEasy9 
[21:20:12] <coruja> main topic today, with three subtopics
[21:20:14] <devil> GoinEasy9: no need to be sorry
[21:20:18] <coruja> TOPIC are there any concrete reasons for the slow-down of recent development (packages/images, website)?
[21:20:30] <coruja> SUBTOPIC finish setting up the build server and the initial siduction packages
[21:20:56] <coruja> the build server is set up, but where are the packages?
[21:21:20] <devil> well, as i said in my mail to core yesterday, there is 2 possible reasons imho
[21:21:34] <devil> lack of time or interest. for sure we lost some momentum
[21:21:54] <devil> if its lack of time, than our communication is crap
[21:22:35] <devil> vibora: can we have some hard facts please?
[21:23:24] <vibora> devil: packages are ready to be built, except art-foo which has some dm-kdm glitches to be fixed
[21:23:43] <coruja> if packages have been built, where will they appear for internal testing?
[21:23:45] <devil> vibora: that was the state we had one week ago 
[21:24:08] <vibora> devil: the same as today
[21:24:26] <devil> are we following some kind of agenda to release in 2011? if so, we need to really get going.
[21:24:35] <hendrikL> i think its the xml-file in dm-kdm that have to be removed
[21:24:40] <coruja> vibora, is there a reason for not building the packages?
[21:24:44] <devil> vibora: are you lacking time? what holds this up for weeks now?
[21:25:00] <vibora> coruja: lack of time, incomplete server setup
[21:25:16] <devil> wellm, these things need be communicated
[21:25:16] <coruja> vibora, what is missed on the server?
[21:25:42] <vibora> devil: i started some weeks ago, packages are finished since then
[21:25:54] <vibora> and i said it in here
[21:26:04] <devil> vibora: so its more work than expected?
[21:26:07] <coruja> and where are they?
[21:26:18] <vibora> coruja: we need to clear  how to build and sign
[21:26:42] <vibora> devil: it was at first, but most of the work is done
[21:26:43] <devil> vibora: did your talk with towo last night lead to anything?
[21:26:43] <coruja> vibora, 'we' are you and towo`?
[21:27:17] <vibora> devil: no, no real soultion yet except trying pbuilder-uml
[21:27:22] <devil> vibora: you were to try to fix the signing
[21:28:27] <devil> so we have no ETA, when setting up pyfll for building can start?
[21:28:50] <coruja> that would be no good news
[21:28:51] <vibora> devil: yes, but this leads to consequences i'm not sure about, building as root etc.
[21:29:11] <devil> vibora: the debian channels can be a good resort for that kind of problems
[21:29:44] <devil> specialy #d and #d-mentors
[21:29:52] <devil> or #d-derivatives
[21:30:16] <devil> the latter one probably being most duited
[21:30:22] <devil> suited even
[21:30:26] <coruja> i think on the 1st of december finally, there should be an iso for testing, in whatever shape
[21:30:54] <vibora> coruja: i'm quite sure there'll be one
[21:30:56] <devil> coruja: that would work, if packages would be on the srrver tonight
[21:31:09] <coruja> for testing of both packages and the whole system
[21:31:28] <devil> imho there is no way to meet release in 2011
[21:31:43] <devil> which does not make me happy at all
[21:32:24] <coruja> i think or rather suppose that with start serious testing at the beginning of december, it is still possible, but hard work
[21:32:44] <devil> very hard, and sid has to play well
[21:32:46] <coruja> the earlier, the better
[21:33:23] <coruja> any major transitions in sight, devil?
[21:34:02] <devil> nothing with a fixed date
[21:34:16] <vibora> brb
[21:34:17] <coruja> vibora, and what if you provide unsigned packages at first, as we urgently need testing
[21:34:17] <devil> which means nothing
[21:34:54] <vibora> coruja: no way
[21:35:04] <coruja> hm [21:36:34] <vibora> coruja: i do not want to provide unsigned packages which could lead to security breaches
[21:37:07] <coruja> vibora, just for first tests, nothing public, and just as long as it takes to fix signing
[21:38:11] <coruja> as we're already there...
[21:38:24] <coruja> SUBTOPIC build and test internally first siduction packages and images
[21:38:50] <coruja> towo`, if your health allows, any comments on the state of pyfll?
[21:39:35] <devil> coruja: pyfll will need a few hours or days of adjusting, as soon as all packages are available 
[21:39:57] <devil> from there, as long as sid plays well, we can build away
[21:39:58] <coruja> btw, i started building images with live-build, but didn't manage to install though the installer works
[21:40:42] <coruja> but pyfll is ready to go or does it miss anything too?
[21:41:03] <devil> no, its fine, after we have a working .conf file
[21:41:12] <coruja> ok, fine
[21:41:24] <coruja> so again, we need packages asap
[21:41:52] <coruja> pleeeaaase vibora 
[21:42:41] <devil> i think we can move on to the visual side: template
[21:42:49] <coruja> ok
[21:42:59] <coruja> SUBTOPIC finish adapting the CD to our design and starting its deployment onto our website
[21:43:15] <coruja> first, our cd seems to be done, at last [21:43:18] <coruja> right?
[21:43:27] <devil> agaida: same to you: is there any reliable info and a ETA on the state of CD and pouring it into a template?
[21:43:39] <vibora> coruja: i'll apply a workaround, so packages can be built
[21:43:43] <agaida> nein
[21:43:56] <coruja> vibora, very appreciated, thanks
[21:44:00] <devil> agaida: why is that?
[21:44:37] <agaida> struggeling with XML and Joomla. 
[21:45:05] <devil> agaida: with joomla but not with css?
[21:45:58] <agaida> CSS depends on a functional XML-Description of the layout.
[21:45:58] <devil> well, i guess, first of all, we need someone with xml-foo
[21:46:24] <devil> right?
[21:47:25] <agaida> We need someone with a good Joomla knowledge. The official documentation is crap. Its trial and error.
[21:48:10] <agaida> As i write good knowledge i mean good knowledge about internal handling of joomla stuff.
[21:48:40] <devil> ok, new to me. lack of communication here as well.
[21:48:44] <agaida> Ich bin da erst halb durch, langsam gehts schneller.
[21:49:44] <devil> well, if the technical side is ready for release, but the visual is not, we could still decide to release with what we have
[21:50:18] <devil> or i find someone with the needed joomla-foo (maybe agaida can clarify that foo a bit more)
[21:51:08] <coruja> but i would prefer a cleaned up test.siduction.org keep on using zikula
[21:51:23] <coruja> *to keeping
[21:51:27] <devil> what?
[21:51:38] <agaida> Templating foo. Not the usage. 
[21:51:53] <coruja> but i would prefer a cleaned up test.siduction.org to keeping on using zikula
[21:52:14] <devil> agaida: setting up joomla template opposed to setting up a template?
[21:52:22] <cryptosteve> as I said weeks ago .. there is no real reason to switch to joomla soon ..
[21:52:43] <coruja> personally, i find siduction.org really ugly
[21:52:50] <devil> yes
[21:53:46] <devil> agaida: if you have specific problems, why not mail them to ab?
[21:54:41] <agaida> Ich schreibs auf deutsch: Das mitgelieferte Orginal des Templates ist gut, nur nicht, wenn wir es anpassen wollen. Dazu muss man es verstanden haben. Der Rest ist einfach. Ich glaube nicht, dass ab da eine sehr große Hilfe ist, das geht auch in Richtung Module wie Forum.
[21:54:42] <hendrikL> well i think, everything, or most,  is there to polish it a bit (siduction.org)
[21:56:43] <devil> agaida: i think i understood ab to the extent that he thinks, setting up a template is easier than modifying the default one
[21:56:47] <agaida> hendrikL: Polieren fällt aus. Jedes Update, auch jedes Sicherheitsupdate haut uns dann das Polish kaputt.
[21:57:11] <agaida> devil: good joke
[21:57:27] <devil> not trying to be funny, me
[21:57:49] <agaida> me too
[21:58:16] <devil> if its so hard, then there is artisteer to the rescue. crappy code. good looking
[21:58:37] <devil> it can create joomla templates
[21:59:08] <agaida> den teufel mit dem beelzebub austreiben war noch nie eine Lösung. Das soll kein Wortwitz sein.
[21:59:31] <coruja> i think we must have a new working website until the 20th of december at last, if we want to keep our release date... is that possible?
[22:01:01] <agaida> ich denke, ich hab das Templating soweit verstanden, dass ich zum Ende der Woche damit durch bin. Die CSS-Anpassungen sind dann relativ trivial. In other words: YES
[22:01:42] <coruja> agaida, sounds good 
[22:02:00] <agaida> no. it sounds like a lot of work
[22:02:52] <coruja> agaida, good joke 
[22:03:25] <coruja> agaida, and can we expect a first template until the next core team meeting then?
[22:03:30] <agaida> The positive aspect of this: I need a template at work to. Also very urgent. 
[22:03:44] <agaida> yes:
[22:04:07] <coruja> that sounds good too (and like a lot of work)
[22:04:23] <coruja> devil, is this ok for you?
[22:05:20] <devil> yes
[22:05:25] <coruja> fine
[22:05:29] <agaida> Das einzige Bescheuerte an der ganzen Sache ist, dass man den Standard nicht nutzen kann. Wenn der gekupfert ist, ist der Rest einfach.
[22:05:56] <coruja> any other comments on possible showstoppers regarding development?
[22:06:58] <devil> we have to be aware, that our timeline is really endangered.
[22:07:22] <devil> but i have the feeling, noone takes that too serious anyways
[22:08:28] <coruja> personally, i don't stick too close to the first release in 2011, would be fine, but not necessary
[22:08:55] <devil> we will loose credit, if we delay
[22:09:19] <coruja> we will also lose it if we fail or publish crap
[22:09:21] <agaida> if we release crap we loose more credit
[22:09:41] <devil> coruja: that will not happen anyways
[22:09:54] <devil> and i did not say, we should
[22:10:36] <devil> how do others see the idea of splitting the technical and the visual side to try for a release in 2011?
[22:11:03] <coruja> devil, don't get me wrong, i still try to have a release this year, but not a half-baken buggy one
[22:11:26] <devil> coruja: the technical side needs to be top notch
[22:11:34] <coruja> ack
[22:11:58] <cryptosteve> as I have no clue for both technical and visual things I don't care ..
[22:12:41] <coruja> but i don't like a release with zikula to present it
[22:12:56] <devil> we could reelase with a joomla page that is not finished all the way
[22:13:04] <devil> coruja: no, no way
[22:13:08] <coruja> would be fine with me
[22:13:17] <devil> as long as its functional
[22:13:41] <coruja> as long as users find the download link 
[22:14:19] <devil> well, noone will have negative feelings if there is a release and joomla is functional but unfinished
[22:14:39] <coruja> i agree, at least i hope so
[22:15:41] <agaida> ich werde mich in der nächsten Zeit nur um Joomla kümmern. Der Rest ist nicht meins.
[22:15:47] <devil> we will still strive to get it done. its just that for the technical side, i know how much work is left if we start building, for the visual side, i dont
[22:16:52] <coruja> devil, i think we'll have a better perspective if it's doable or not at the next core team meeting
[22:17:13] <devil> coruja: if we dont by then, we are lost anyways 
[22:17:18] <coruja> hehe
[22:17:42] <devil> i am as serious as a heartattack
[22:17:53] <coruja> at least we should tell the users 'yes, this year' or 'sorry, next year' then at least
[22:18:05] <devil> yes
[22:18:06] <coruja> -at least
[22:18:54] <devil> a lot of people install on new or old hardware around x-mas holidays
[22:19:10] <devil> well, there is not much time this year anyways 
[22:19:42] <coruja> but in two weeks it should be clear if we can or can't this year
[22:19:56] <devil> yes, lets make it a topic.
[22:20:16] <coruja> and yes, christmas would be a good chance, but there are still christmas's to come
[22:21:47] <coruja> may i suggest to drop the rest of the topics for today as they are rather optional and to keep on talking about development?
[22:21:50] <devil> even new years eve would be fine
[22:22:13] <devil> what are the topics left?
[22:22:32] <coruja> http://paste.siduction.org/20111120192226 the last five
[22:23:06] <devil> i would like to deal with: * collect the latest news and efforts concerning siduction mirrors
[22:23:40] <coruja> ok
[22:23:42] <devil> becausea release needs preparations there in advance (especialy with holidays involved)
[22:24:01] <coruja> any further comments on development for now?
[22:24:33] <coruja> TOPIC collect the latest news and efforts concerning siduction mirrors
[22:24:37] <agaida> ich klink mich aus, Migräne
[22:24:51] <coruja> gute besserung, agaida 
[22:25:04] <agaida> danke.
[22:25:05] <devil> vibora, GoinEasy9: any news regarding mirrors?
[22:25:44] <GoinEasy9> I need a server address and possibly a dummy iso so I can have the mirrors start pulling.
[22:25:53] <vibora> devil: tu-bs is ready, and will go live on release
[22:26:16] <vibora> or even before
[22:26:25] <devil> vibora: so what is needed from our side? do you have credentials to upload?
[22:26:34] <coruja> nothing new concerning the mirror in brazil
[22:27:18] <coruja> but i will have news next time, i think or at least hope
[22:27:57] <devil> coruja: brazil is nice but optional for initial release
[22:27:58] <vibora> devil: pull is requested as method
[22:28:07] <coruja> devil, i know
[22:28:45] <devil> vibora: so you are good to go, or do you need to contact someone when we are ready?
[22:28:48] <GoinEasy9> We are in the Thanksgiving vacation time here, so I will probably have to wait till after this week to contact folks again, but when I do I'd like to have an address to give them
[22:29:05] <vibora> devil: i have everything i need
[22:29:11] <vibora> err we need
[22:29:16] <devil> vibora: fine
[22:29:29] <devil> GoinEasy9: talk to vibora when you are good to go
[22:30:51] <GoinEasy9> I could send an email at any time and just wait for a response, I might even catch them, not everyone goes home for Thanksgiving.
[22:32:46] <coruja> ok, any further comments on that topic?
[22:32:47] <GoinEasy9> vibora: when you are ready, a server address and a test file and I'll start the ball rolling.
[22:32:48] <devil> GoinEasy9: no hurry now
[22:32:54] <coruja> ah, ok 
[22:32:55] <GoinEasy9> devil: ok
[22:33:19] <devil> GoinEasy9: its just we need to set up things so we dont get caught in a x-mas holiday trap
[22:34:32] <GoinEasy9> devil: Correct, we need to have the pulls automated before the sememster ends and everyone goes home for winter break.
[22:35:20] <coruja> GoinEasy9, when will that be exactly?
[22:35:44] <GoinEasy9> devil:  Probably different for each University
[22:36:00] <GoinEasy9> I would guess a week before Xmas
[22:36:23] <coruja> ok, then the 15th of december should be a kind of deadline
[22:36:41] <GoinEasy9> coruja: I think that's about right
[22:38:14] <coruja> any objections to delaying the remaining 4 topics to the next meeting?
[22:38:21] <devil> nope
[22:38:29] <devil> nothing pressing
[22:38:53] <coruja> i agree, maybe one for next time
[22:39:31] <coruja> anyone wants to speak up to have another topic discussed?
[22:40:17] <coruja> then i close tonight's core team meeting, thank you again for your attention and good night